(you can listen to the podcast here)
Ways & Means* - 03/18/09 1:30 pm
Full Committee
Senate Hearing Rm 4
J.A. Cherberg Building
Olympia, WA
The March 18th Senate Ways and Means Committee meeting in the Washington State Legislature provided an interesting opportunity for testimony to be heard on bills that would fund a variety of activities in King County, including funding for arts and heritage programs, tourism promotion, youth sport activities, regional centers, publicly owned stadiums, community development, and low income housing.
House Bill ESHB 2252 passed in the House on March 12th and was picked up by the senate committee. The senate has its own bill, SB 6116, but there are differences. The hearing gave public officials, and the general public, an opportunity to compare the two bills and voice their preferences.
Some differences between the two bills are few, but major.
ESHB2252 does not have as many taxes extending beyond the years 2012, 2015 and 2021. It does not provide funding or language in the bill to support stadiums and arenas, including capital improvements and maintenance for the existing Safeco and Qwest stadiums. This was a concern of Senator Zarelli, who vowed to ensure that any bill the moves forward include language that does not lead the Seattle Mariners to a "Sonic incident".
ESHB252 also is much more prescriptive and restrictive in its dividing of the funding between arts and heritage programs, regional centers, human services, low-income housing, and community development.
SB6116, that appeared to be the favorite among proponents of any bill, provides King County greater flexibility by listing some percentages of how some of the revenue should be divided, and a ranked priority list of subjects, but it leaves the finer management of the revenue to the King County Council.
SB6116 also extends taxes not included included in the House bill to pay for all of it.
Here is section 6 of the bill
SB 6116:
NEW SECTION. Sec. 6. A new section is added to chapter 67.28 RCW to read as follows:
Money deposited in a special purposes account under this section may be used only for the following purposes within the county:
(1) Funding tourism promotion as defined in RCW 67.28.080;
(2) Funding youth or amateur sports activities or facilities;
(3) Funding regional centers or performing arts centers, but excluding regional centers or performing arts centers within:
(a) Cities with a population of one hundred thousand or more; and
(b) Cities described in RCW 35.57.010(1)(d);
(4) Maintaining or improving publicly owned stadiums or arenas;
(5) Funding community development; and/or
(6) Funding low-income housing.
Maybe this gets into the House bill, maybe it doesn't. If any stadium language is wanted in the House bill it may be difficult to do. The House rules make it difficult to insert language into the body of a bill that is not similar to the title of the bill. I know it sounds crazy, but it is true.
Unlike the US Congress we cannot make random amendments to bills - they have to be related to the topic in the bill and described by the title of the bill. Crafting titles is somewhat of a legislative art. RossHunter.com
Although, Ross Hunter did testify in the committee meeting that he thinks the house bill could be used to insert language from SB6116, "either bill could work".
Which bill moves forward is still unknown, and in what form. ESHB2252 may be amended by the senate, or substituted by the senate bill SB6116 with some minor adjustments to make it more passible by the House.
I do think that one way, or another, a bill has to pass because the funding for the arts, 4Culture, is set to expire this summer. Funding for low-income housing could also take a big hit.
I will keep an eye out for activity, and post it in the comments of this thread.
Posts
31 comments:
I'll go ahead and dump my baseless speculation here, I do not want to give too much hope to the hopeless (I'm ripping off Harry Shearer *sp a little).
I "think" a bill of some kind has to pass, for the stuff that is in 2252.
I think that 2252 will get alterations, or 6116 will substitute it and let the house try to pick it apart, here's why:
SB6116 was sponsored by Ed Murray, he was wearing a purple tie yesterday, though he would not be the first gay man to wear a purple tie, I think he was ready to deal with the cougs, for that matter, Prentace and a few others were defending the stadium funding. Jeanne has Seattle Center in her district.
The first witness at the hearing was Dow Constantine (sp), he is President of the King County Council, he also want to be King County Executive, replacing Ron Simms.
Ross Hunter prefers the senate bill 6116 to his own, he thinks the locals should control the local taxing district, he too wants to be Kibg County Executive replacing Ron Simms.
When Ross or Dow get elected do you think they want more a more options or less, more revenue or less?
That is a difference from a year ago, imagine Ron Sims sitting there yesterday blathering, yikes!
2252 is going to change, my guess.
Spilitting the baby is problematic, I think the stadium and arena words stay in when it leaves the senate.
There was some positioning going on, Hunter rolled out the same stuff he has been saying for a year, give back state matching sales tax, more local control. The senate bill does not give back the state matching portion (I think) so I think that goes in and it gets more people outside of the county out of having an interest (leverage), there isn't a general fund reason to kill the bill, the taxes go on past this budget cycle so it has zero effect on the tax people pay right now.
As much as I trashed Zarelli for being on the task force, he clearly is helpful with making sure the word stadium stays in so safeco does not get screwed.
I am waiting and looking for amendments, and for scheduling for executive session in committee for changing and voting.
Things look ok, I expect that if arenas stay in that there will be a dollar limitation and end date of some kind to force them to act or move on to spending it on Sewttle Center, nobody is going to set 75 million to the side for 5 years, not that they really have to, a team would be here in a year and a half if this passed, my guess, and the renovation could be done around the NBA.
Eight months after a settlement allowed the Sonics to skip town, the City Council is set to endorse a new agreement with KeyCorp for naming rights to KeyArena at a discount price of $600,000.
The contract, renegotiated in the summer of 2008, would keep KeyArena's logo above Seattle Center for another two years at $300,000 a year. Under the former contract, which was contingent on having an NBA tenant in the building, KeyCorp was due to pay $1.3 million in 2010.
The Ohio-based bank signed a 15-year contract for sponsorship rights in 1995 after the arena was remodeled.
The Sonics were sold to new owners in Oklahoma City, led by Clay Bennett, who paid $45 million last year to settle a lawsuit filed by the city to keep the team in Seattle.
"We were eager to get back to them because of the continuity it provided at a time of great change for KeyArena because of the loss of the Sonics," Seattle Center spokeswoman Deborah Daoust said.
The agreement also saves the city from having to remove the KeyArena signs, including the big neon letters above the building, and other promotional materials, which would have cost about $250,000, Daoust said.
A hearing is set Tuesday before the City Council's Parks and Seattle Center committee, which is expected to send the agreement to the full council next Monday.
"They could have left completely and decided not to pay for naming rights," said Councilman Tom Rassmussen, who chairs the committee.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/404089_KEYARENA21ww.html
that was from what's left of the SeattlePI
I'll go ahead and dump my baseless speculation here, I do not want to give too much hope to the hopeless (I'm ripping off Harry Shearer *sp a little).
I "think" a bill of some kind has to pass, for the stuff that is in 2252.
I think that 2252 will get alterations, or 6116 will substitute it and let the house try to pick it apart, here's why:
SB6116 was sponsored by Ed Murray. I think he was ready to deal with the cougs, for that matter, Prentace and a few others were defending the stadium funding. Jeanne has Seattle Center in her district.
The first witness at the hearing was Dow Constantine (sp), he is President of the King County Council, he also want to be King County Executive, replacing Ron Simms.
Ross Hunter prefers the senate bill 6116 to his own, he thinks the locals should control the local taxing district, he too wants to be Kibg County Executive replacing Ron Simms.
When Ross or Dow get elected do you think they want more a more options or less, more revenue or less?
That is a difference from a year ago, imagine Ron Sims sitting there yesterday blathering, yikes!
2252 is going to change, my guess.
Spilitting the baby is problematic, I think the stadium and arena words stay in when it leaves the senate.
There was some positioning going on, Hunter rolled out the same stuff he has been saying for a year, give back state matching sales tax, more local control. The senate bill does not give back the state matching portion (I think) so I think that goes in and it gets more people outside of the county out of having an interest (leverage), there isn't a general fund reason to kill the bill, the taxes go on past this budget cycle so it has zero effect on the tax people pay right now.
As much as I trashed Zarelli for being on the task force, he clearly is helpful with making sure the word stadium stays in so safeco does not get screwed.
I am waiting and looking for amendments, and for scheduling for executive session in committee for changing and voting.
Things look ok, I expect that if arenas stay in that there will be a dollar limitation and end date of some kind to force them to act or move on to spending it on Sewttle Center, nobody is going to set 75 million to the side for 5 years, not that they really have to, a team would be here in a year and a half if this passed, my guess, and the renovation could be done around the NBA.
Mr. Baker
here is a link to the video city's Monday briefing, the budget, and then the legislative brief
Council Briefing 3/23/2009
Agenda Items: State Legislative Update, State of the Regional Economy.
http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/video.asp?ID=2010912
senate policy bill in-committee cutoff is next Monday, house is the end of this week
about 9 minutes into it, through minute 17.
Nick Licata is a big help here, I'm not kidding. Nobody else has shown the difference between the two bills, 2252 excludes much of Seattle Center, Nick just saved me 11 emails.
got an email from Ross Hunter, he said that he would "work with Ed [Murray] on what moves forward."
He had to pass what he had, or not pass anything.
The focus the city council has on this should help.
IMO: We need the arts and low-income housing folks to promote their part of bill 6116.
Ways and Means Committee meetings this week have been canceled, the senate and house are trying to reconcile the two versions of the legislature's budget.
They are busy.
Next week 4 meetings have been set with blank agendas.
Hopefully the important stuff is resolved by Tuesday, the Senate is ready now, Frank Chopp is not ready. Caucus meetings are going to go through the weekend.
love this blog - keep doing what you do!
why do you say if "arenas stay in"? is there anything going on that could take that out? if this is a long term tax plan, dosen't "arenas" have to be there for showare center?
what do you mean by "splitting the baby."?
what would the easier way to pass leyarena, altering 2252 or substituting 6616?
King Solomon's solution was to "split the baby", between two mothers claims to one child. Rather than split the baby, thereby killing it, the true mother protests the loudest to the terrible solution, the protest identifys the true mother to Solomon and the baby then was given to its rightful home.
That story has been told by others much better than I just did.
In my story the baby is a bill that has been voted on by both sides of the legislature (you don't get a bill turned into law any other way).
The House half of the baby-bill was passed to the Senate Ways and Means committee for its other genes (stay with me here, father's eyes, mother's sunny disposition). The House and Senate baby is passed back to the House to resolve the changes the Senate made to it its half of the baby.
Splitting the baby-bill at this point could kill it (it would not be the first time Frank Chopp killed somebody's baby-bill). There may not be legislative time to pass the baby-bill back to each side of the house until a baby-bill is reconciled.
The Senate had one and a-half ours of testimony (complaining the loudest).
My guess is that the bill that emerges is the one that passes, though the nutty rules of the legislature may mean that a bad baby-bill is agreed to by the Senate so they can alter it with amendments on the legislative floor (this happens a lot, and more than they like, vote the amendments, then vote the actual bill, messy).
There is likely more delay, the Ways and Means committee doubled its meetings for next week just to resolve the state's budget bill.
I suggest leaving them alone for a few days.
(define, explain, apply, that's for you Dr. J - not THAT Dr. J)
This is amazing how this federal stimulus stuff works for our state: Initially we're expected a 6 billion shortfall for '09-'11, so our project federal stimulus money comes to about 7 billion. Now that our shortfall totals to 9 billion well wouldn't you know it the fed went through the couch cushions and it looks like our stipend comes out to 10 billion. "What a country." Anyway, I haven't any new developments of late. My State Senator---The honorable Debbie Regala is in agreement with the auspices of 6116 which gives me some hope that the state senate is trying to grasp the big picture at least. What day are we into the session anyway? The way the federal money is coming in and the stone silence with regard to the legislature hammering out a budget gives me pause to believe that this session may go into overtime. Just saying.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/topstories/story/690953.html
wow, that's crazy, not the stimulus, you, or your Senator supporting 6116, but the comments by readers at the end of that story from the News Tribune.
Anyway, that $10 billion is not in direct funding to state government, anymore than every penny of tax break I will see in my paycheck starting in April (it just feels like it sometimes).
More money will be in the state then the State of Washington itself is losing in revenue. They are going to be short a few billion.
Some of that $10 billion is counting the tax breaks in paychecks.
So, State government will still have to make big cuts, but the state+federal net effect will be a positive.
Good for that, the loss of private econmonic input will still put the state economy in a hole, businesses closing, laying off employees, short-term lending for otherwise profitable businesses getting harder to get.
Glad to hear your Senator is in support of 6116, I guess we all have to remember that when she asks for Tacoma Dome help in the future, and the 5 million Tacoma wants for its baseball stadium this session.
Oh, yes, today is day 77 of the 105 day session.
Ways and Means is working double-time this week, I expect they work the weekends before they think about OT.
A 10 day special session? Don't know how they get done on time.
oops, today is day 76, 29 days to go.
Hey Mr. B, what do you make of this:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008942273_kingbudget29m.html
Could be another piece to a funding puzzle possibly?
Close, this is part of shifting taxing authority to the local jurisdiction, in this case King County.
The "problem" is that much of unicorporated King County wants the services of a city without having to pay taxes that acity has the authority to impose. When things are good those places do ok, and their taxes are pretty low, when things are bad there is no way the county can respond to the increase in demand for services, and in fact, they face having to chop more.
The "solution" is to give some city-style taxing authority to the county to promote unicorporated areas and cities to incorporate where it makes economic sense.
Then the county is left with the bits that really are rural, and really do require a minimum amount of civilization.
Read:
www.rosshunter.com/?p=223
Ross Hunter really does go all out on shifting uthority and control to the lowest level possible. What is good theory for the county is good for the city, locally collected taxes staying local for locally controlled investment.
He really would prefer that taxes collected in Seattle stay here, if you follow the bigger picture he is presenting.
Yes, I read your blog, I watch TVW, I read the bills, I watch C-SPAN, but not the Seattle Channel (too much fluff), though I do watch the council meeting webcasts, and the Parks and Seattle Center sub-committee meeting (sorry about the shitty email back in January, right before the Storm vote, to you Tom Rassussen).
I have no idea who actually reads this blog, though the past couple months I have had far more page views (lots of lurking). I use the google ads as a poor-man's people counter, I have yet to get a dime, and that's not why I am here.
But I digress.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/callaghan/story/693621.html
this article really puzzles me. it basically says we don't have a chance.
Or, it says the bill can not be unending, amend the bill with a legislature controlled sunset provision for taxes not allocated to bond repayment, subject to review by legislature in 2015.
so do you think the article i mentioned has any fact to it, or is it just crap journalism?
I think it is a fact that giving an unending tax to the county is something that is not liked in the bill.
My guess is that while covering the testimony on the budget bill in the Ways and Means Committee the reporter asked about these bills and got that reaction.
Remove the excuses.
Note that he did not say it was dead, just what somebody does not like.
so what do you think about the "no money for sports and culture when there are budget cuts" stuff?
Isn't one of the problems with 6116 that, in its present form, it's not specific enough to meet the settlement agreement with Clay? The city sure seems to be admitting that, instead asking for 75m to be directed, as opposed to just being an option out of many. the problem with that, IMO, is that it pits Key against every other potential usage of the money, because if there is specific money set aside for, say, Key, the Huskies demand their set aside, the Mariners & Seahawks demand a set aside for future capital improvements to their stadiums, etc., etc., etc. I saw on the soniccentral blog that you are still optimistic. Why? I just don't see it happening in the face of everything else facing the state, county and city at this point.
Peter, they are often mixed as one thing, but they are not even the same bucket of money, and it is not available for a couple years.
The state, unlike a capital project, does not borrow money against future revenue for the operating budget. There isn't any actual money to take right now.
Anon, I do not think 6116 has that problem, 2252 does.
6116 has the word arena, and the funds, King County gets that power and rdvenue and puts KeyArena to that revenue and I think we are good. I do not know if they would have to tie those two things, state funding for "arenas" and King County declaring that KeyArena is the arena, doesn't matter, approve funding and I think things move pretty quickly and King County would support that.
The greater points they are trying to make is that what Seattle does can be done within the taxes collected within the city (the rest of the county is not impacted) and making a case to use that revenue and not have it skinned off for something else(claiming their's). I really do think, as I have said here many times, are after a funding source for the site.
btw,baker have you had any contact with ross hunter or anybody in the leg lately? all this pause on this bill(6116) is just worrying me.
Well I pretty much thought that with the state laying off teachers and all these cuts to education that I'd just try to blot all this negativity away but once again here comes the Fed:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/31/AR2009033104165.html?hpid=moreheadlines
How is it possible for the legislature to adjourn as scheduled with the this money coming in? They have to make adjustments whenever funds have been released.
'Bout time for another thread eh, Mr. B?
Public pressure.
The mayor announced cuts to capital spending, that impacts the arts folks too, this was on King5 news too.
Hopefully this will encourage people, other than sports fans to be more public.
Post a Comment